Comments on: Private or Public? http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/ Rambles around the head of an Irish Grandad Mon, 08 Sep 2008 18:10:19 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Martha http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-33935 Martha Thu, 24 Apr 2008 23:04:22 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-33935 Grandad said: "I don’t give a damn about who is being too greedy or who is wasting resources. What I do give a damn about is that people are dying because of the mess, and others are suffering needlessly. The crack about Harney and cancer was made in a moment of exasperation. You can be damned sure that if she had a health problem [if? hah!] she would have every doctor in the land around her bed. If she came out of her ivory tower and had to experience the system as the rest of us have to, she might take a different perspective on things." I do. I care about who is beig too greedy and who is wasting (our natural) resources. I care about the greedy sociopaths who have control of our (my mother) country! I think the Irish people, as a whole, are stupid to let the lunatics in their midst dictate to them. How did THAT ludicrous situation come about? Hint: Roman Catholicism. Grandad said: “I don’t give a damn about who is being too greedy or who is wasting resources. What I do give a damn about is that people are dying because of the mess, and others are suffering needlessly.
The crack about Harney and cancer was made in a moment of exasperation. You can be damned sure that if she had a health problem [if? hah!] she would have every doctor in the land around her bed. If she came out of her ivory tower and had to experience the system as the rest of us have to, she might take a different perspective on things.”

I do. I care about who is beig too greedy and who is wasting (our natural) resources. I care about the greedy sociopaths who have control of our (my mother) country!

I think the Irish people, as a whole, are stupid to let the lunatics in their midst dictate to them. How did THAT ludicrous situation come about? Hint: Roman Catholicism.

]]> By: Private or Public? http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-26313 Private or Public? Wed, 05 Dec 2007 21:53:56 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-26313 [...] head of an Irish Senior Citizen            Private or Public? To my regular readers - I apologise for hitting the same topic twice in succession. I just want to [...] [...] head of an Irish Senior Citizen            Private or Public? To my regular readers - I apologise for hitting the same topic twice in succession. I just want to [...]

]]> By: Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? at Irish Election http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25471 Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? at Irish Election Mon, 19 Nov 2007 10:55:37 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25471 [...] Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? [...] [...] Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? [...]

]]> By: Irish Election » Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25419 Irish Election » Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? Sun, 18 Nov 2007 05:38:25 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25419 [...] Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? [...] [...] Head Rambles » Blog Archive » Private or Public? [...]

]]> By: Grandad http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25386 Grandad Sat, 17 Nov 2007 12:10:20 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25386 Hi Paige, My post is based on events as they happened. Patient A was my wife and patient B was my daughter's partner. I am in no way advocating the closing the public sector in favour of the private. I wrote the piece to highlight the difference between the two. Every person in this country should have a right to primary health care. We are paying enough taxes and [by your own figures] thirteen billion of those taxes are going into the public health system. But where is it going? I merely wrote about the Beacon to contrast a system where you can get immediate attention if you are prepared to pay privately, but that you are left on the shelf if you can't. Of course I don't know anything about the doctor who treated my wife. I didn't ask how much she was paid and I didn't ask if she worked in the public sector. All I know is that at the hint of a malignant growth, my wife was fast-tracked through the system and in less than a week had had all the required tests, and an operation. In contrast my daughter's partner had to leave the hospital in disgust after waiting nearly 15 hours in severe pain and getting very little attention. He is having an operation on his back next week. This is because he is going private. Otherwise, it would be some time next year. People are dying because of this setup. It is that serious. There is a lot of arguing over who is to blame - let's blame the consultants, or the HSE or the nurses or whoever. The point is that it is up to the minister to sort out the mess ultimately. You make the point that the public model is bedevilled by self interest and innefficiency. It is up to the minister to sort that out, either personally, or by directive to the HSE. I don't give a damn about who is being too greedy or who is wasting resources. What I do give a damn about is that people are dying because of the mess, and others are suffering needlessly. The crack about Harney and cancer was made in a moment of exasperation. You can be damned sure that if she had a health problem [if? hah!] she would have every doctor in the land around her bed. If she came out of her ivory tower and had to experience the system as the rest of us have to, she might take a different perspective on things. Hi Paige,
My post is based on events as they happened. Patient A was my wife and patient B was my daughter’s partner.
I am in no way advocating the closing the public sector in favour of the private.
I wrote the piece to highlight the difference between the two. Every person in this country should have a right to primary health care. We are paying enough taxes and [by your own figures] thirteen billion of those taxes are going into the public health system. But where is it going? I merely wrote about the Beacon to contrast a system where you can get immediate attention if you are prepared to pay privately, but that you are left on the shelf if you can’t.
Of course I don’t know anything about the doctor who treated my wife. I didn’t ask how much she was paid and I didn’t ask if she worked in the public sector. All I know is that at the hint of a malignant growth, my wife was fast-tracked through the system and in less than a week had had all the required tests, and an operation.
In contrast my daughter’s partner had to leave the hospital in disgust after waiting nearly 15 hours in severe pain and getting very little attention. He is having an operation on his back next week. This is because he is going private. Otherwise, it would be some time next year.
People are dying because of this setup. It is that serious. There is a lot of arguing over who is to blame - let’s blame the consultants, or the HSE or the nurses or whoever. The point is that it is up to the minister to sort out the mess ultimately. You make the point that the public model is bedevilled by self interest and innefficiency. It is up to the minister to sort that out, either personally, or by directive to the HSE.
I don’t give a damn about who is being too greedy or who is wasting resources. What I do give a damn about is that people are dying because of the mess, and others are suffering needlessly.
The crack about Harney and cancer was made in a moment of exasperation. You can be damned sure that if she had a health problem [if? hah!] she would have every doctor in the land around her bed. If she came out of her ivory tower and had to experience the system as the rest of us have to, she might take a different perspective on things.

]]> By: Paige B Harrison http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25383 Paige B Harrison Sat, 17 Nov 2007 10:31:12 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25383 Grandad, Taking your anecdotes as an accurate and unbiased description of events*, I presume from your conclusion that the best way to go would be to close down every public hospital and allow the private sector (Beacon et al) to do its best. I say * because while I've no doubt that the Beacon provided excellent healthcare tp Patient A, I wonder if the story wasn't a bit more involved. Perhaps the Beacon Doctor also practices in the public sector. Perhaps (s)he gets paid a very large public sector salary for a 33 hour week and still is able to work in the shiny new Beacon. Perhaps having gotten to the top of the consultant tree, (s)he is blocking the appointments of any more consultants in his/her specialty. Perhaps (s)he is demanding €250,000 per annum for his/her 33 hour week from the Govt - on top of the earnings he/she makes in the Beacon. Perhaps Patient A didn't realise that she/he is paying twice for the same healthcare. And maybe, that the blood sample taken in the private hospital was dispatched across to the public hospital for analysis. Maybe the lab manager in the public hospital is faced with a choice. Test a public sample and get €x or test the private sample and get €10x. And given that his/her lab has been under-resourced for years, the lab manager might have no economic choice but to give priority to the private sample. And perhaps the doctor in the public hospital knows that there is little point taking a blood sample for analysis 'cos the hospital lab is too busy testing private hospital samples. I could go on and on. The important thing is that Patient A and Patient B get the treatment that they deserve. The problem, I would respectfully suggest might not be all Mary Harney's doing. Perhaps it isn't possible to have a public and a private system working side-by-side. Perhaps we can only have one or other. The public model is bedevilled by self-interest and inefficiency ; The private model is bedevilled by profit-maximising motive. Paige P.S. I'd have a lot more sympathy with your story had you not wished illness on someone who -however misguided - is at least trying to make a difference. Grandad,
Taking your anecdotes as an accurate and unbiased description of events*, I presume from your conclusion that the best way to go would be to close down every public hospital and allow the private sector (Beacon et al) to do its best.

I say * because while I’ve no doubt that the Beacon provided excellent healthcare tp Patient A, I wonder if the story wasn’t a bit more involved. Perhaps the Beacon Doctor also practices in the public sector. Perhaps (s)he gets paid a very large public sector salary for a 33 hour week and still is able to work in the shiny new Beacon. Perhaps having gotten to the top of the consultant tree, (s)he is blocking the appointments of any more consultants in his/her specialty. Perhaps (s)he is demanding €250,000 per annum for his/her 33 hour week from the Govt - on top of the earnings he/she makes in the Beacon. Perhaps Patient A didn’t realise that she/he is paying twice for the same healthcare. And maybe, that the blood sample taken in the private hospital was dispatched across to the public hospital for analysis. Maybe the lab manager in the public hospital is faced with a choice. Test a public sample and get €x or test the private sample and get €10x. And given that his/her lab has been under-resourced for years, the lab manager might have no economic choice but to give priority to the private sample. And perhaps the doctor in the public hospital knows that there is little point taking a blood sample for analysis ‘cos the hospital lab is too busy testing private hospital samples.

I could go on and on. The important thing is that Patient A and Patient B get the treatment that they deserve. The problem, I would respectfully suggest might not be all Mary Harney’s doing. Perhaps it isn’t possible to have a public and a private system working side-by-side. Perhaps we can only have one or other. The public model is bedevilled by self-interest and inefficiency ; The private model is bedevilled by profit-maximising motive.

Paige
P.S. I’d have a lot more sympathy with your story had you not wished illness on someone who -however misguided - is at least trying to make a difference.

]]> By: joared http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25206 joared Wed, 14 Nov 2007 06:35:07 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-25206 Glad to have found your blog with comments here providing a perspective from additional countries about their systems. The USA has to "fix" our health care system and I'm real concerned about just how we'll go about it. What I'm reading here just accentuates what we must be careful to prevent happening in whatever system we devise. Think that's possible? I just wrote a piece on my blog about "timely delivery of services" for non-life threatening ailments, also the lack of care for our veterans. We certainly have to make some provision for all those without any insurance. Glad to have found your blog with comments here providing a perspective from additional countries about their systems. The USA has to “fix” our health care system and I’m real concerned about just how we’ll go about it. What I’m reading here just accentuates what we must be careful to prevent happening in whatever system we devise. Think that’s possible?

I just wrote a piece on my blog about “timely delivery of services” for non-life threatening ailments, also the lack of care for our veterans. We certainly have to make some provision for all those without any insurance.

]]> By: Me Blog! » Blog Archive » Obligatory Health Service rant http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-24927 Me Blog! » Blog Archive » Obligatory Health Service rant Thu, 08 Nov 2007 20:26:27 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-24927 [...] health service here in Ireland is a shambles and that is putting it mildly. Just read Grandad’s post and you will get an idea. The notable thing about Grandad’s post is that those mentioned in [...] [...] health service here in Ireland is a shambles and that is putting it mildly. Just read Grandad’s post and you will get an idea. The notable thing about Grandad’s post is that those mentioned in [...]

]]> By: Baino http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-24925 Baino Thu, 08 Nov 2007 19:24:22 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-24925 This is an endemic problem in Western society. Those who can afford health care get it, those who can't wait. We have a very similar problem here with our hospitals in crisis. Not enough doctors or beds. The Federal government gives money to the States for Health Care and the States choose how it is spent. With a Liberal fed and Labour States its a blame game back and forth. Recently, women (yes plural) have miscarried in emergency waiting rooms without any attention and a man was sent home after an ECG as 'fine' only to suffer a heart attack a few hours later. I'm about to have major surgery in a private hospital. I pay handsomely for the priviledge but still my surgeon and anaethetist will charge more than my cover allows.It's called 'the gap' as well as an excess for the first night's 'accommodation'. I will be out of pocket by about $2000 despite paying $300 a month for the past zillion years for the privelidge of being operated upon and staying in a hospital where I can choose my meals. I will not be voting for the current government on November 24th and the new one had better get it right or there will be open revolt out here. Grandad, I agree with a previous commenter. You should send this post to the newspapers, get on tabloid TV and enrage the nation. This is an endemic problem in Western society. Those who can afford health care get it, those who can’t wait. We have a very similar problem here with our hospitals in crisis. Not enough doctors or beds. The Federal government gives money to the States for Health Care and the States choose how it is spent. With a Liberal fed and Labour States its a blame game back and forth. Recently, women (yes plural) have miscarried in emergency waiting rooms without any attention and a man was sent home after an ECG as ‘fine’ only to suffer a heart attack a few hours later. I’m about to have major surgery in a private hospital. I pay handsomely for the priviledge but still my surgeon and anaethetist will charge more than my cover allows.It’s called ‘the gap’ as well as an excess for the first night’s ‘accommodation’. I will be out of pocket by about $2000 despite paying $300 a month for the past zillion years for the privelidge of being operated upon and staying in a hospital where I can choose my meals. I will not be voting for the current government on November 24th and the new one had better get it right or there will be open revolt out here.

Grandad, I agree with a previous commenter. You should send this post to the newspapers, get on tabloid TV and enrage the nation.

]]> By: cooper http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-24921 cooper Thu, 08 Nov 2007 18:21:57 +0000 http://www.headrambles.com/2007/11/08/private-or-public/#comment-24921 hear hear.i'm with tony i save a fortune by just waiting for treatment.its only a couple of years now ...two tier health system nothing that was last year or was it the year before that ,now its a game of chance! hear hear.i’m with tony i save a fortune by just waiting for treatment.its only a couple of years now …two tier health system nothing that was last year or was it the year before that ,now its a game of chance!

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